Drew's system and bigs

1,470 Views | 11 Replies | Last: 15 days ago by Fre3dombear
parch
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With Aidoo off the board, we're not looking at a 20+ mpg big out of the portal anymore. Aidoo was the last forward available who could have radically knocked our starting 5 look off the trajectory it was on based on the guys we now have.

Which means this lineup is starting to look a lot more like the 2009/2021 teams, the two most prominent Drew groups where you had four guards (Jerrells/Dugat/Lace/Tweety in '09, Teague/Butler/Flagler/Mitchell in '21) decidedly in the top 5 of team mpg over the course of the year. Obviously in one scenario this is a very good thing, but our roster is much thinner in the frontcourt than the best of those, which is not out of line to observe at this point.

I think you'll see a lot of similar rotations where Josh O starts in the same way Flo did and get to 14-16 mpg average and give way to Roach, VJ, Nunn and Love (in a best case scenario vis-a-vis Love's health, Wright will be in the mix as well) as the other top four minutes-getters on average. Which means, barring something unexpected in the portal, which is still nominally possible but not to any massive degree anymore, we're looking at more of Drew's 4-man guard lineups. Based on Drew's past and our roster construction, I think this is absolutely inevitable, and on the continuum I think this will be among the most guard-based starting 5's he's fielded. Which is saying something.

This is not an inherent negative, but it isn't an inherent positive either.

The reason this worked in the natty year and didn't work in '09, to say nothing of the talent difference, is because you had Vital (the only non-guard getting starter minutes) and EJ off the bench giving you nuclear post energy rotating nonstop throughout games. Kevin Rogers was an effective pull-up post guy, but he was not giving you that low-post rage we got in '21, and Acy was still a true frosh, hence the difference in results. Guard-heavy can work, but it needs a really energetic, experienced, mean gardener in the frontcourt to make it grow.

Aidoo would've given you that. I'm struggling to see where it's coming from now. Josh O has improved a lot, but he has more Flo energy than a Vital or Acy or Gathers. Boyed decommitted. I don't see any way Missi withdraws his name from the draft. Even if Bridges did come back, he's definitely not that guy. Lohner showed painfully few flashes of being that guy, but he wasn't and now he's gone anyway. Then you have a very green Asemota, who from what I can tell from his tape is more of a Bridges/slasher-scorer type and not that high-motor low-post garbage banger. Beyond that, you're hoping to get an unexpected lightning bolt from the portal out of nowhere, or something out of someone who's never contributed in any significant way in that role before.

We'll see what the rest of the portal has to give, but at this point I would be shocked if you don't see a 5-guard setup at points throughout the year, which is not normal but also not unprecedented for Drew. On balance we're going to be among the top 10 most talented teams in the country next year and should expect another high seed in March, but we're going to be extremely imbalanced across our roster and barring something unexpected it'll be up to our backcourt to pick up interior slack with undersized low-post energy.
Crawfoso1973
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Sorry but I think this post is way premature. We will be getting another big to rotate with Josh O and a starting PF to replace Bridges. I am not the least bit worried about Drew filling these positions and there is no way we will play 4 or 5 guard lineups unless there are multiple injuries during the season.
IvanBear
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I think you've got a lot of good points, but I think you'll see us add a forward and either another forward or a guard if we can't land a legitimate center.

I keep getting push back on this, but our guards are not good enough right now to carry us even close to a big 12 title, we need at least another one or someone who plays like a guard to run the offense you're talking about.

Adding a forward who can play like a guard and a forward who can play like a forward or a forward and a center or a forward and a guard are really the only options I see to getting this roster to contention level.
parch
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Crawfoso1973 said:

Sorry but I think this post is way premature. We will be getting another big to rotate with Josh O and a starting PF to replace Bridges. I am not the least bit worried about Drew filling these positions and there is no way we will play 4 or 5 guard lineups unless there are multiple injuries during the season.
I mean, statistically we have to have another couple bigs to fill out the roster, so the question in play here isn't whether we'll sign them. I'm not worried about filling those spots either. The question is what type of big, how good they are, how much experience they have, how they fit into the system and how their playstyle meshes with a roster that has almost its entire talent pool skewed toward guard. More so than even most years at this time. And by this point in the pool you're looking at diminishing returns every day.

Whatever happens, we're going to be asking significantly more than previous years from some big guys who've only been here a couple months by the time the season starts. Is it possible a Freddie Gillespie is on the bench somewhere or an Ekpe Udoh walks through that door? Sure. Is it likely? At this time in the cycle, historically not, and the broader point is that no matter what, our guard group is going to have to pick up more slack than usual based on the system experience our big men will have. Right now we have one battle-tested forward on the roster at any slot with any experience, let alone in our system. That has to be acknowledged.
Adriacus Peratuun
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Does Big Pharm have a little pill for Premature Epostulation?
DallasBear9902
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OP is a good analysis. Don't forget that Acy also played along side Lomers. Acy was strong as an Ox and he wouldn't back down, but he was undersized as a true five.

Fundamentally, guys like Acy, Vital and EJ are tremendous assets to Coach Drew.

Big Josh O has a higher ceiling than Flo on both sides of the ball. Primarily due to Josh being more explosive. Flo was never going to jump passing lanes or play above the rim.
Fre3dombear
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DallasBear9902 said:

OP is a good analysis. Don't forget that Acy also played along side Lomers. Acy was strong as an Ox and he wouldn't back down, but he was undersized as a true five.

Fundamentally, guys like Acy, Vital and EJ are tremendous assets to Coach Drew.

Big Josh O has a higher ceiling than Flo on both sides of the ball. Primarily due to Josh being more explosive. Flo was never going to jump passing lanes or play above the rim.


Or catch passes cleanly
bear2be2
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Crawfoso1973 said:

Sorry but I think this post is way premature. We will be getting another big to rotate with Josh O and a starting PF to replace Bridges. I am not the least bit worried about Drew filling these positions and there is no way we will play 4 or 5 guard lineups unless there are multiple injuries during the season.
I agree. Scott Drew pretty much never plays a post more than 25-ish minutes per game. All we need is one rotational big who can handle a 50-50 split with Josh O. and there are plenty of those guys still available.

Even a guy like Abou Ousmane could handle that. All we need is someone who can set screens, finish at the rim, defend and rebound. We don't need anyone exceptionally skilled.
IvanBear
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Fre3dombear said:

DallasBear9902 said:

OP is a good analysis. Don't forget that Acy also played along side Lomers. Acy was strong as an Ox and he wouldn't back down, but he was undersized as a true five.

Fundamentally, guys like Acy, Vital and EJ are tremendous assets to Coach Drew.

Big Josh O has a higher ceiling than Flo on both sides of the ball. Primarily due to Josh being more explosive. Flo was never going to jump passing lanes or play above the rim.


Or catch passes cleanly
Flo was honestly only good at being Timme's daddy.

The way things ultimately shook out though... I am totally okay with that.
TXBEAR_bf
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Or make a point blank layup, or block a shot without fouling, or miss a weak side assignment…..I mean this list could go on and on.
Bear living in the woods of Bend Oregon
Crawfoso1973
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To be fair, Flo was an adequate player up until his last season. He was an adequate positional defender and an exceptional screener (underrated skill in our offense, our bigs function like a good offensive lineman clearing a path. The ability to set screens without picking up cheap fouls is an essential skill for our bigs). We have recency bias against him because he was terrible his last year due to gaining like 70 or 80 pounds after winning the Natty.
Fre3dombear
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TXBEAR_bf said:

Or make a point blank layup, or block a shot without fouling, or miss a weak side assignment…..I mean this list could go on and on.


But……#hasring
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